Skip to main content

Fundamentals

You feel it before you can name it. A persistent fatigue that sleep doesn’t resolve. A mental fog that another cup of coffee fails to clear. The subtle but steady decline in vitality, strength, and drive that can be easily dismissed as just “getting older.” This experience, this felt sense of a system running down, is a deeply personal and often isolating one.

It is here, in this lived reality, that the conversation about hormonal health truly begins. Your body is a meticulously orchestrated network of communication, and its primary messengers are hormones. The timeline for restoring their function when they go awry is profoundly shaped by the very foundation of your cellular health ∞ your metabolic state.

Individual is the biological bedrock upon which all hormonal signaling is built. Think of your metabolism as the power grid and electrical wiring of a house. Hormones are the complex appliances and smart devices connected to that grid. If the power supply is erratic, inconsistent, or overloaded—a state of metabolic dysfunction—it is illogical to expect the appliances to function correctly.

They will flicker, short-circuit, or fail to turn on at all. Similarly, a body struggling with insulin resistance, chronic inflammation, or poor energy production cannot efficiently manufacture, transport, and receive hormonal signals. Hormonal recovery, therefore, is contingent on first repairing the underlying power grid.

A serene individual reflects optimal patient well-being, embodying successful hormone balance. Her expression suggests robust metabolic health, enhanced cellular function, and positive therapeutic outcomes from personalized clinical assessment within a wellness journey
A person in glasses and a beanie looks upward in natural light, signifying physiological well-being and endocrine balance. This image represents the patient journey towards metabolic health and cellular function optimization, reflecting therapeutic outcomes from clinical wellness protocols

The Cellular Power Grid Metabolic Health

At its core, metabolic health describes how well your body generates and utilizes energy from the food you consume. This process is far more intricate than simply counting calories; it is about the efficiency of communication between your cells and the fuel they receive. Several key pillars define this efficiency:

  • Glucose and Insulin Regulation ∞ This is the primary system for managing blood sugar. When you eat carbohydrates, they are broken down into glucose, which enters your bloodstream. In response, the pancreas releases insulin, a hormone that acts like a key, unlocking cells to allow glucose to enter and be used for energy. In a metabolically healthy individual, this process is swift and efficient. In a state of insulin resistance, the cells become “numb” to insulin’s signal. The pancreas must then produce more and more insulin to get the same job done, leading to high circulating levels of both glucose and insulin, a condition that creates systemic stress and inflammation.
  • Inflammatory Status ∞ Inflammation is a natural, protective immune response to injury or infection. Acute inflammation is healthy and necessary for healing. Chronic, low-grade inflammation, however, is a state of persistent immune activation that damages tissues over time. This systemic inflammation can be driven by poor diet, chronic stress, and excess body fat, particularly visceral fat around the organs. It acts like static on the line of your body’s communication systems, disrupting hormonal signaling pathways.
  • Mitochondrial Function ∞ Mitochondria are the tiny power plants within almost every cell in your body. They are responsible for converting glucose and fatty acids into adenosine triphosphate (ATP), the main energy currency of the cell. The very synthesis of hormones, a process called steroidogenesis, is an energy-intensive process that begins inside the mitochondria. Poor metabolic health, characterized by excess glucose and inflammation, directly damages mitochondria, reducing their ability to produce ATP efficiently. This energy deficit cripples the cell’s ability to perform its functions, including making hormones.
A serene woman displays optimal endocrine balance, showcasing metabolic health and vitality. Her expression reflects profound cellular function, patient well-being, and therapeutic success from personalized hormone optimization protocols in clinical wellness
Serene patient radiates patient wellness achieved via hormone optimization and metabolic health. This physiological harmony, reflecting vibrant cellular function, signifies effective precision medicine clinical protocols

Hormones the Body’s Internal Messaging Service

Your endocrine system is the network of glands that produces and secretes hormones. These chemical messengers travel through the bloodstream to target tissues, where they bind to specific receptors on cells, instructing them on what to do. This system regulates everything from your mood and energy levels to your reproductive function and stress response. The Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Gonadal (HPG) axis is a central command pathway for reproductive hormones.

The hypothalamus in the brain releases Gonadotropin-Releasing Hormone (GnRH). This signals the pituitary gland, also in the brain, to release Luteinizing Hormone (LH) and Follicle-Stimulating Hormone (FSH). These hormones then travel to the gonads (testes in men, ovaries in women), instructing them to produce testosterone or estrogen and progesterone. This entire axis operates on a sensitive feedback loop system.

When metabolic health is compromised, this delicate communication system is one of the first to be disrupted. The signals become garbled, suppressed, or ignored, leading to the symptoms you feel every day.

Your body’s ability to recover hormonal balance is directly tied to the efficiency of its cellular energy and communication systems.

Understanding this connection is the first step toward reclaiming your vitality. The fatigue, the brain fog, the loss of drive—these are not isolated symptoms. They are signals from a system under strain.

By addressing the foundational metabolic issues, you create the necessary biological environment for to occur. The timeline is not a passive waiting game; it is an active process of rebuilding from the cellular level up.


Intermediate

The journey from recognizing symptoms to understanding their systemic roots brings us to a more granular level of inquiry. How, precisely, does a dysfunctional metabolic state derail the intricate process of hormonal recovery? The answer lies in specific biological mechanisms where metabolic stress actively sabotages the endocrine system’s ability to self-regulate and respond to therapeutic interventions. Addressing these underlying disruptions is fundamental for anyone considering or currently undergoing hormonal optimization protocols, as the efficacy of such treatments is directly influenced by the body’s metabolic receptivity.

A compromised metabolic environment creates a state of constant, low-level biological noise that interferes with the precise signaling required for hormonal balance. This interference is not random; it follows predictable pathways of disruption. For individuals seeking to restore hormonal function, whether through lifestyle changes or clinical protocols like (TRT), understanding these pathways is essential. The timeline for recovery is often dictated by how effectively these metabolic roadblocks can be cleared.

A composed individual, representing a patient, signifies optimal hormone optimization and metabolic health. This visual conveys positive therapeutic outcomes from personalized clinical protocols, fostering enhanced cellular function and comprehensive wellness journey
A man embodying hormone optimization and metabolic health. His confident physiological adaptation symbolizes successful peptide therapy or TRT protocol application, showcasing patient vitality and cellular function enhancement from precision endocrinology

Insulin Resistance the Communication Jammer

Insulin resistance is a primary antagonist to hormonal health, particularly for the HPG axis. Its disruptive influence is multifaceted, affecting hormone production, transport, and signaling.

In men, high levels of circulating insulin have a direct suppressive effect on Leydig cell function in the testes, where testosterone is produced. While insulin in healthy amounts can be stimulatory for the HPG axis, the chronic hyperinsulinemia characteristic of appears to desensitize the Leydig cells, leading to reduced testosterone output. Furthermore, insulin resistance is often associated with obesity, particularly an increase in visceral adipose tissue.

This type of fat is highly metabolically active and expresses high levels of the enzyme aromatase, which converts testosterone into estrogen. This process simultaneously lowers testosterone levels and raises estrogen levels, further disrupting the delicate androgen-to-estrogen ratio required for male health and well-being.

In women, especially during the perimenopausal transition, insulin resistance exacerbates hormonal imbalance. It is a key driver of conditions like Polycystic Ovary Syndrome (PCOS) and can worsen symptoms like irregular cycles and androgen excess. High insulin levels stimulate the ovaries to produce more testosterone while also reducing the liver’s production of Sex Hormone-Binding Globulin (SHBG).

SHBG is a protein that binds to sex hormones in the bloodstream, controlling their availability to tissues. Lower SHBG means more free, unbound hormones, which in the case of testosterone in women, can lead to unwanted symptoms.

A calm individual, eyes closed, signifies patient well-being through successful hormone optimization. Radiant skin conveys ideal metabolic health and vigorous cellular function via peptide therapy
A pristine organic structure embodies Hormone Optimization, with a central white sphere representing foundational Testosterone or Estrogen balance. Surrounding beige elements symbolize precise Peptide integration for Metabolic Health and Cellular Repair

How Does Metabolic Health Affect TRT Protocols?

For individuals undergoing hormonal optimization, metabolic status is a critical variable that can determine the success and safety of the protocol. For instance, a man with significant insulin resistance and inflammation starting a standard TRT protocol may experience a suboptimal response or increased side effects. The elevated activity in his adipose tissue could lead to a more significant conversion of the administered testosterone into estradiol, potentially causing water retention, mood swings, and other estrogen-related side effects.

This often necessitates the use of an Anastrozole, an aromatase inhibitor, to manage the conversion. However, addressing the root cause—the underlying metabolic dysfunction—can reduce the need for ancillary medications and allow the body to respond more efficiently to the primary therapy.

Similarly, a post-menopausal woman receiving low-dose testosterone therapy for symptoms like low libido and fatigue will have a much different experience depending on her metabolic health. If she is insulin sensitive, the therapy is more likely to produce the desired effects without complication. If she is insulin resistant, the therapy’s effectiveness may be blunted, or it could contribute to further metabolic dysregulation if not managed carefully alongside lifestyle and dietary interventions.

Metabolic dysfunction acts as a systemic brake on hormonal recovery, turning a clear path into a challenging uphill climb.
A mature male, clear-eyed and composed, embodies successful hormone optimization. His presence suggests robust metabolic health and endocrine balance through TRT protocol and peptide therapy, indicating restored cellular function and patient well-being within clinical wellness
A man's joyful expression embodies peak hormonal balance and vitality. This image signifies profound patient well-being and metabolic regulation, demonstrating clinical efficacy in optimizing endocrine system function for cellular regeneration and optimal health outcomes

Chronic Inflammation the Signal Scrambler

Chronic, low-grade inflammation is another key metabolic disruptor of hormonal function. Pro-inflammatory cytokines, which are signaling molecules of the immune system, can directly interfere with the at multiple levels.

  • At the Hypothalamus ∞ Inflammatory cytokines can suppress the pulsatile release of GnRH, effectively turning down the master signal for the entire reproductive hormone cascade.
  • At the Pituitary ∞ They can blunt the pituitary’s sensitivity to GnRH, meaning that even if the signal from the hypothalamus is sent, the pituitary is less able to respond by producing LH and FSH.
  • At the Gonads ∞ Research has shown that inflammatory mediators can directly impair the function of the Leydig cells in the testes and theca and granulosa cells in the ovaries, reducing their capacity to produce steroid hormones. Studies have demonstrated that even a transient inflammatory response can cause a measurable drop in serum testosterone in men.

This inflammatory state is often driven by the same factors that cause insulin resistance, including a diet high in processed foods, chronic stress, and excess visceral fat. Therefore, protocols aimed at restoring hormonal health must include strategies to mitigate inflammation. This is why a comprehensive approach that combines targeted hormonal therapy with anti-inflammatory dietary patterns and stress management is so effective.

Table 1 ∞ Influence of Metabolic Markers on Hormonal Parameters
Metabolic Marker Primary Hormonal Impact in Men Primary Hormonal Impact in Women Effect on Hormonal Recovery Timeline
High Fasting Insulin

Suppresses Leydig cell function; lowers SHBG, increasing free estradiol via aromatization.

Stimulates ovarian androgen production; lowers SHBG, increasing free testosterone.

Prolongs recovery by creating resistance to hormonal signaling and increasing side effects.

High hs-CRP (Inflammation)

Suppresses GnRH and LH release; directly impairs testicular testosterone production.

Disrupts ovulation and menstrual cycle regularity; contributes to follicular dysfunction.

Slows recovery by actively suppressing the HPG axis at multiple levels.

High Triglycerides / Low HDL

Often a proxy for insulin resistance and systemic inflammation, contributing to the above issues.

Associated with metabolic syndrome and PCOS, complicating hormonal balance.

Indicates a poor metabolic foundation, suggesting a longer and more complex recovery process.

A delicate, off-white, flower-like object rests on a thin, natural branch, symbolizing the intricate balance of the endocrine system and the journey toward hormonal homeostasis. A precise white thread below signifies advanced peptide protocols and meticulous lab analysis for personalized hormone optimization
A poised woman's direct gaze embodies hormone optimization and metabolic health. Her radiant cellular vitality reflects successful clinical protocols and endocrine regulation, demonstrating patient well-being and physiological restoration from peptide modalities

Peptide Therapies a Targeted Intervention

In the context of metabolic health, certain peptide therapies can be particularly useful. Peptides are short chains of amino acids that act as signaling molecules. Therapies using peptides like Sermorelin or the combination of Ipamorelin / CJC-1295 are designed to stimulate the body’s own production of Growth Hormone (GH). GH plays a significant role in regulating metabolism, improving body composition (increasing muscle mass and reducing fat), and enhancing cellular repair.

For an individual with metabolic dysfunction, these peptides can help improve insulin sensitivity and reduce inflammation, thereby creating a more favorable environment for the HPG axis to recover. They can act as a complementary therapy, helping to repair the “power grid” while other interventions are working to restore the function of the “appliances.”

Ultimately, the timeline for hormonal recovery is an active process, not a passive one. It is directly proportional to the degree to which an individual can restore metabolic function. A body that is insulin sensitive, non-inflamed, and energetically efficient is a body that is primed to respond to hormonal signals, whether they are endogenous or therapeutic.

Ignoring the metabolic foundation is like trying to tune a complex instrument in the middle of a loud, chaotic construction site. The first step is always to quiet the noise.


Academic

An advanced examination of the relationship between metabolic state and hormonal recovery requires moving beyond systemic correlation and into the precise molecular mechanisms that govern cellular bioenergetics and endocrine function. The speed and success of hormonal restoration are fundamentally dictated by the cell’s ability to sense its energetic status and allocate resources accordingly. This process is governed by a sophisticated network of nutrient-sensing pathways, with AMP-activated protein kinase (AMPK) and the mechanistic target of rapamycin (mTOR) at its nexus.

The functionality of the Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Gonadal (HPG) axis is not merely influenced by these pathways; it is directly regulated by them. A state of metabolic dysregulation, therefore, represents a state of confused or conflicting information at the most fundamental level of cellular decision-making.

A multi-generational patient journey exemplifies hormonal balance and metabolic health. The relaxed outdoor setting reflects positive outcomes from clinical wellness protocols, supporting cellular function, healthy aging, lifestyle integration through holistic care and patient engagement
A delicate, intricately veined plant husk encases a luminous, pearlescent sphere. This symbolizes Hormone Replacement Therapy unveiling optimal hormonal balance, reflecting the intricate endocrine system and protective clinical protocols

The Cellular Energy Sensor AMPK as a Master Regulator of the HPG Axis

AMPK is a highly conserved serine/threonine kinase that functions as a sensor. It is activated under conditions of low cellular energy—when the ratio of AMP/ATP and ADP/ATP increases—such as during exercise or caloric restriction. Once activated, AMPK initiates a cascade of events designed to restore energy homeostasis ∞ it switches on catabolic pathways that generate ATP (like fatty acid oxidation) and switches off anabolic, energy-consuming processes (like protein and lipid synthesis). The synthesis of hormones is an energetically expensive anabolic process, making it a direct target for AMPK-mediated regulation.

Within the context of the HPG axis, AMPK activation has a potent inhibitory effect. In the hypothalamus, activated AMPK can phosphorylate and inhibit kisspeptin neurons, which are the primary drivers of GnRH release. This provides a direct mechanistic link between a state of cellular energy deficit and the downregulation of the central reproductive signal. This is a evolutionarily conserved mechanism designed to suppress fertility during times of famine or extreme stress.

However, in the modern context of chronic metabolic disease, this pathway can be pathologically activated. A state of mitochondrial dysfunction, even in the presence of caloric excess, can lead to a low intracellular ATP-to-AMP ratio, triggering AMPK and suppressing the HPG axis inappropriately.

A pristine white flower opens to reveal a spherical, textured core, symbolizing the precise cellular optimization achieved through advanced hormone replacement therapy. This represents the delicate balance of the endocrine system, supporting metabolic health, and promoting cellular repair for enhanced vitality and wellness
Individuals walk barefoot through reflective sunrise ocean waves, embodying a vibrant patient journey toward hormone optimization. This depicts enhanced metabolic health, robust cellular function, and endocrine balance achieved through personalized clinical wellness protocols fostering physiologic restoration and improved quality of life

Mitochondrial Dynamics and Steroidogenesis

The process of converting cholesterol into steroid hormones begins in the mitochondria. The transport of cholesterol from the outer mitochondrial membrane to the inner mitochondrial membrane, facilitated by the Steroidogenic Acute Regulatory (StAR) protein, is the rate-limiting step in steroidogenesis. This entire process is exquisitely dependent on mitochondrial health and dynamics—the continuous cycle of fission (division) and fusion (merging) that mitochondria undergo to maintain their integrity and function.

Recent research has illuminated the critical role of in steroid production. For steroidogenesis to proceed efficiently, mitochondria must be able to form a dynamic network and interact closely with the endoplasmic reticulum at specialized contact points known as Mitochondria-Associated Membranes (MAMs). These interactions are crucial for the transfer of cholesterol. In states of metabolic dysfunction, characterized by oxidative stress and lipotoxicity, mitochondrial dynamics are impaired.

Mitochondria can become fragmented (excessive fission) or overly fused and dysfunctional, disrupting the architecture necessary for efficient steroid production. This provides a clear, cell-autonomous mechanism by which poor metabolic health directly cripples the gonads’ ability to synthesize hormones, independent of central suppression from the hypothalamus or pituitary.

The timeline for hormonal recovery is ultimately a reflection of the time required to restore mitochondrial bioenergetic capacity and repair cellular signaling fidelity.
A pristine white poppy with a vibrant yellow-green center delicately rests against a textured, light-colored spherical object on a soft green backdrop. This symbolizes the delicate hormonal balance achieved through personalized medicine, addressing hypogonadism or perimenopause
A pale, damaged leaf covers a smooth, pristine egg-like object. This symbolizes the patient's journey from hormonal imbalance, like hypogonadism or perimenopause, towards endocrine system restoration and renewed vitality

What Is the Impact on Post-TRT Recovery Protocols?

The influence of metabolic health is particularly evident in men attempting to restore endogenous testosterone production after discontinuing TRT, a process often guided by a Post-TRT or Fertility-Stimulating Protocol. These protocols typically use medications like Clomid (clomiphene citrate) or Tamoxifen, which are Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators (SERMs), and Gonadorelin, a GnRH analogue. SERMs work by blocking estrogen receptors in the hypothalamus, tricking the brain into thinking estrogen levels are low and thereby increasing the production of GnRH and subsequently LH and FSH. directly stimulates the pituitary to release LH and FSH.

The efficacy of these medications is contingent on the responsiveness of the target tissues. In an individual with underlying insulin resistance and inflammation:

  • Hypothalamic Resistance ∞ The very neurons that Clomid and Tamoxifen target may be desensitized or suppressed due to chronic inflammatory signaling or aberrant AMPK activation. The “go” signal from the SERM may be drowned out by the “stop” signals from the poor metabolic environment.
  • Pituitary Dysfunction ∞ The pituitary’s ability to respond to GnRH (whether endogenous or from Gonadorelin) can be blunted by inflammation. The gonadotroph cells may have reduced receptor sensitivity or impaired signaling capacity.
  • Testicular Inertia ∞ Even if a strong LH signal reaches the testes, the Leydig cells must have the metabolic machinery to respond. If their mitochondria are dysfunctional and their steroidogenic pathways are compromised by oxidative stress, their capacity to produce testosterone will be severely limited. The engine may be turning over, but the factory is unable to produce the goods.

This explains why recovery timelines after TRT can be so variable. An individual with excellent metabolic health may see a rapid restoration of their HPG axis function. Conversely, someone with metabolic syndrome may struggle for months, experiencing a sluggish or incomplete recovery despite adhering to the pharmacological protocol. Their recovery is rate-limited by the health of their underlying cellular machinery.

Table 2 ∞ Cellular Mechanisms Linking Metabolic State to Hormonal Recovery
Cellular Pathway Mechanism of Action Impact on HPG Axis Implication for Recovery Timeline
AMPK Activation

Senses low cellular energy (low ATP:AMP ratio). Inhibits anabolic processes.

Suppresses hypothalamic kisspeptin/GnRH release. Reduces central drive.

A metabolically damaged cell may chronically activate AMPK, creating a persistent brake on HPG axis restart, extending the recovery period.

mTOR Pathway

Senses nutrient and growth factor abundance. Promotes anabolic processes.

Required for cellular growth and function, including in the pituitary and gonads. Chronic inflammation can dysregulate mTOR signaling.

Imbalanced mTOR signaling can impair the cellular growth and repair needed for the HPG axis to regain full function.

Mitochondrial Dynamics

Regulates mitochondrial fission/fusion, essential for bioenergetics and cholesterol transport for steroidogenesis.

Dysfunctional dynamics directly impair Leydig/theca cell ability to synthesize steroid hormones at the gonadal level.

Recovery is limited by the time it takes to repair mitochondrial networks, a process that requires sustained metabolic improvement.

Endoplasmic Reticulum Stress

Caused by accumulation of unfolded proteins, often due to metabolic overload. Triggers an inflammatory response.

Contributes to cellular dysfunction in steroidogenic cells and hypothalamic neurons, further suppressing hormone production.

ER stress acts as a persistent source of cellular dysfunction that must be resolved for hormonal pathways to normalize.

In conclusion, a sophisticated understanding of hormonal recovery necessitates a focus on the bioenergetic and signaling integrity of the cell. The timeline is not merely a function of pharmacology but a direct readout of the body’s metabolic competency. Therapeutic interventions are profoundly more effective when applied to a system that is metabolically sound. Therefore, clinical strategies that prioritize the restoration of insulin sensitivity, the resolution of chronic inflammation, and the support of are not adjunctive to hormonal recovery protocols; they are foundational to them.

References

  • Pitteloud, Nelly, et al. “Increasing Insulin Resistance Is Associated with a Decrease in Leydig Cell Testosterone Secretion in Men.” The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, vol. 90, no. 5, 2005, pp. 2636-41.
  • Tremellen, Kelton, et al. “Endotoxin-Initiated Inflammation Reduces Testosterone Production in Men of Reproductive Age.” American Journal of Physiology-Endocrinology and Metabolism, vol. 307, no. 3, 2014, pp. E327-34.
  • Rone, M. B. et al. “The Expanding Role of Mitochondria, Autophagy and Lipophagy in Steroidogenesis.” Biochimica et Biophysica Acta (BBA) – Molecular and Cell Biology of Lipids, vol. 1861, no. 10, 2016, pp. 1514-24.
  • Hayes, Frances J. “Interplay Between Gonadal Steroids and Insulin in Men.” Grantome, 2008.
  • Vingren, J. L. et al. “The relationship between circulating testosterone and inflammatory cytokines in men.” Sports Medicine, vol. 42, no. 4, 2012, pp. 275-98.
  • Di Sante, M. et al. “Steroidogenesis Upregulation through Mitochondria-Associated Endoplasmic Reticulum Membranes and Mitochondrial Dynamics in Rat Testes ∞ The Role of D-Aspartate.” International Journal of Molecular Sciences, vol. 25, no. 6, 2024, p. 3298.
  • Kaltsas, Gregory A. et al. “The Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Gonadal Axis in Kidney Transplant Recipients.” Brazilian Journal of Nephrology, vol. 43, no. 4, 2021, pp. 556-63.
  • Serena, G. et al. “Menopause as a Critical Turning Point in Lipedema ∞ The Estrogen Receptor Imbalance, Intracrine Estrogen, and Adipose Tissue Dysfunction Model.” International Journal of Molecular Sciences, vol. 25, no. 13, 2024, p. 7099.
  • Veldhuis, Johannes D. “Aging and Hormones.” Hormonal and Metabolic Changes of Aging and the Influence of Lifestyle Modifications, edited by George R. King, Springer, 2018, pp. 3-21.
  • Maggio, M. et al. “The Anti-Inflammatory Effects of Testosterone.” Journal of Endocrinological Investigation, vol. 36, no. 7, 2013, pp. 520-25.

Reflection

The information presented here offers a map of the intricate biological landscape connecting your metabolic and hormonal systems. This map provides coordinates and pathways, translating the abstract feelings of fatigue or fogginess into the concrete language of cellular biology. It details how the energy systems within your body form the very ground upon which your hormonal vitality is built. The purpose of this knowledge is to shift your perspective.

Your body is not a collection of disconnected parts that fail in isolation. It is a single, deeply interconnected system.

Consider your own health journey through this lens. Where are the points of friction in your own metabolic foundation? The path toward restored function is a process of rebuilding this foundation, cell by cell. The timeline for this reconstruction is yours alone, written in the language of your unique biology and choices.

This understanding is the starting point. The next steps are about applying this knowledge in a way that is precise, personalized, and aligned with the intelligent design of your own physiology. What does your system need to clear the static and hear the signals once again?